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The discussion kicks off at the 8:10 mark.
JEREMY MAGGS: According to recent crime statistics, firearms persist as the primary weapons in violent crimes, contributing significantly to the alarming rates of homicides and assaults nationwide. What factors are driving this troubling trend? Are there any new strategies to combat gun-related violence in our communities?
For insights, we turn to Adèle Kirsten, the director of Gun Free South Africa. Adèle, welcome. Could you shed some light on the latest firearm-related crime statistics released earlier this week? Are we seeing any deterioration?
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Unfortunately, the situation is not improving. It’s essential to remember that even a minor decrease or stabilization in crime figures occurs amid disturbingly high levels. Gun-related crimes are not declining. While other crime categories may show slight reductions, the daily toll of gun violence remains relentless.
The Medical Research Council’s data released in early October indicates a slight decline in overall femicide rates; however, there is a concerning increase in incidents where men use firearms to murder their female partners at home. This remains a serious issue.
Another alarming trend is the rise in the number of women murdered in public places over the last two to three years. Clearly, we are witnessing changes in patterns of gun violence that specifically target women. It’s crucial to note that the majority of firearm homicide victims in South Africa continue to be young men—a statistic that remains unchanged.
JEREMY MAGGS: Adèle, the impact of illegal firearms is a serious concern. I assume they play a significant role in violent crime and present tremendous challenges for law enforcement.
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Exactly. Addressing the issue of illegal firearms is essential for the South African Police Service [SAPS]. The widespread availability of firearms endangers everyone and complicates police work. When officers respond to incidents like domestic violence, cash-in-transit robberies, or home invasions, they must assume the criminals are heavily armed.
Read: SA’s police are losing the war on crime
While it may seem redundant to emphasize this, data suggests that to lower gun crime rates, we must restrict the circulation of firearms throughout society. The firearms used in these crimes, what we classify as “crime guns,” are typically illegal, but they were once legally owned. They arise from thefts and losses within state institutions, individuals, and the private security sector.
To make progress in reducing gun-related murders, it’s imperative to stop the flow and accessibility of guns across all sectors, rather than solely focusing on recovery. This task is crucial, but recovery alone will not be sufficient.
JEREMY MAGGS: Let’s explore that upstream approach further. Is the issue with the efficiency of gun control laws, or their enforcement?
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: It’s a mix of both. Starting with enforcement, South Africa has robust laws that were once considered a gold standard in gun legislation around two decades ago. This framework regulates gun users, types of firearms, and the conditions under which firearms can be possessed.
Although the law has positive elements, it is over twenty years old, and there are gaps that people exploit to obtain multiple firearms. Additionally, enforcement is notably weak, necessitating improvements on both fronts.
Read: Owning a gun offers some safety, but risks run high for users – expert
During the 16 Days of Activism against Violence Towards Women and Children, it’s pertinent to note that the gun law allows police officers to confiscate firearms in cases of domestic violence, but we do not see consistent implementation of this policy. This is vital and necessary for saving lives.
JEREMY MAGGS: Why is that not happening?
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: There are multiple contributing factors. One fundamental issue is officers’ lack of understanding regarding their authority at the station level. Another, more complex issue, is the common belief that domestic matters should remain private and that police interference is unwarranted.
We receive reports from women stating that police arrive and recommend resolving issues within the family or seeking counseling when, in fact, they should be confiscating the weapon.
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There are even instances where police have failed to remove firearms, despite a court order mandated by the Domestic Violence Act during the issuance of protection orders, leading to tragic outcomes.
JEREMY MAGGS: That’s unbelievable. How can a victim be advised to seek counseling while facing a gun? Adèle Kirsten, Gun Free South Africa is a leading advocacy group.
You have shared this crucial message for a considerable time. When you present this information to authorities, what is their response, and do you find their reactions adequate?
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Jeremy, we’re observing some noteworthy changes in the willingness to engage. Just a few weeks ago, we met with the minister, along with public health professionals, trauma surgeons, and state mortuary representatives to give a holistic view of gun violence in our country, extending beyond just law enforcement perspectives.
There appears to be a readiness to discuss and address the pivotal issues we’ve raised.
Our focus needs to be on three vital areas: reducing firearm circulation, enforcing existing laws, and strengthening those laws. While achieving progress will take time due to several ongoing crises, we are optimistic about these developments.
The challenge depicted in the latest crime statistics is that three months is too short a period to evaluate effectiveness. Initiatives like forming specialized firearms units have encountered significant obstacles stemming from the degradation of our institutions.
While we can provide information and recommend actions, budgeting, capacity, and training ultimately fall under police responsibilities. Thus, our journey is far from over.
JEREMY MAGGS: Indeed. As we conclude, I’d like your honest perspective on the ramifications of inaction. If the current state persists, what might the long-term impacts be on society and the economy?
ADÈLE KIRSTEN: The ramifications are enormous, translating into billions in public health expenditures.
We’re losing billions in lives, job opportunities, and earnings, which profoundly affect families as well.
In our efforts with families in the Cape Flats, we encounter the medical challenges stemming from these conditions, compounded by ongoing fear that drives parents to warn their children against going outside to evade gunfire. This is a grim reality they face daily.
Read: Guns or yoga? City crime fighters in South Africa and Colombia
High levels of trauma inevitably hinder functionality and social interaction. We are facing an epidemic, and it’s critical that we have a unified governmental approach—not just from SAPS—to confront this crisis.
JEREMY MAGGS: Thank you very much, Adèle Kirsten, for your valuable insights. She is at the helm of Gun Free South Africa.
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